If you read your responses here, you do seem to imply that Ukrainian forfeiture is the way to end this conflict. I’d be very happy to hear you say that’s wrong and not your position. And perhaps it’s glib but either they fight or they don’t. And we know what happens if they don’t.
Do you realize that a ceasefire was negotiated two years ago, scuttled by the US and UK via empty assurances to the Ukrainians, urging them to fight on rather than accept the terms? And what did that gain them? Hundreds of thousands of additional lives thrown away, and likely a worse settlement when the dust finally settles in Russia's favor, which it will. Most Ukrainians are sick of it, especially those closest to the front lines. A majority wants a ceasefire, even if that involves territorial concessions, which it will.
The only substantive alternate is to well and truly launch world war 3. No thank you.
Then my comment about you stands. If you think capitulation to a dictator is a recipe for a lasting peace, you’re wrong. That was tried during WW2. It didn’t work out.
I don’t know the reason we talked Ukraine out of a ceasefire 2 years ago but very clearly Putin wouldn’t haven’t honored it anyway. How do I know? Because we also signed the 94 agreement with them and Ukraine and Putin ignored that. And he just bombed a power plant despite recent ceasefire negotiations.
So, he ignored the 94 agreement; he’s not negotiating in good faith now, but your advice to the Ukrainians is let Putin keep the land and roll over?
Do you believe Putin would actually stop the invasion and go home?
Here's a proposal for you: if you'll watch this recent Jeffrey Sachs presentation to the EU parliament, which goes into these issues and their historical context in significant detail (90 minutes, but well worth the admission price), then I'll reciprocate by checking out a reference that you send to me.
Please watch it, and I'll do the same for your source.
In the meantime let me ask you this: do you believe that Putin is the next Hitler (your WW2 reference)? He wants to conquer all of Europe? And your evidence for that is what exactly?
He wants to conquer Ukraine and EU states have said publicly their intelligence indicates Putin may not stop with Ukraine. Just ask Poland, UK and France.
You may not believe them and that’s fine but I have no reason to believe they are lying.
You're being childish. I believe Putin is a thug. Who clearly wants a Russian sphere. I don't see evidence that he's seeking more (the UK and France? please. based on what?) or more importantly, that he has the means to reach for more. And for what it's worth, there's a mountain of evidence spanning decades that the US is categorically more violent and expansionist than any other current power. If the reverse were true of Russia, and it did in Mexico what the US has done and is doing in Ukraine, the US would annihilate Mexico, no questions asked.
Like I said- you may not believe them but I have no reason to believe they are lying. But I should take your word for it?
So you agree Putin has the intent and some means to continue expanding. How many nations should the world allow him to invade? And should they roll over?
As for US is worse than Russia? Really? How far back are we going? Settlement as a British colony? WW1?
Our history is far from perfect and we have done things no reasonable person would be proud of. But we’re not invading a neighbor in 2025 (although with Trump, who knows).
And you still didn’t answer the question which you can do regardless sod any sources we send each other.
Stop evading a simple question.
If you know Putin won’t stop the invasion, why should anyone tell Ukraine to stop fighting and simply become a Russian functionary?
I've tried engaging in good faith, and answering your questions. You can re-read my responses if you think I've avoided anything here. (Hint: I want the pointless killing to stop, as most Ukrainians now do as well.) Perhaps you'll dig more deeply on this issue, and I've pointed you toward at least one source that I've found illuminating. And once again, I'm happy to reciprocate if you send me a source of your own; otherwise I'll bid this discussion farewell.
Spectacularly clueless comment. And just when I was starting to like you ;-)
If you read your responses here, you do seem to imply that Ukrainian forfeiture is the way to end this conflict. I’d be very happy to hear you say that’s wrong and not your position. And perhaps it’s glib but either they fight or they don’t. And we know what happens if they don’t.
So which is it?
What happens exactly if they don't?
Do you realize that a ceasefire was negotiated two years ago, scuttled by the US and UK via empty assurances to the Ukrainians, urging them to fight on rather than accept the terms? And what did that gain them? Hundreds of thousands of additional lives thrown away, and likely a worse settlement when the dust finally settles in Russia's favor, which it will. Most Ukrainians are sick of it, especially those closest to the front lines. A majority wants a ceasefire, even if that involves territorial concessions, which it will.
The only substantive alternate is to well and truly launch world war 3. No thank you.
Then my comment about you stands. If you think capitulation to a dictator is a recipe for a lasting peace, you’re wrong. That was tried during WW2. It didn’t work out.
I don’t know the reason we talked Ukraine out of a ceasefire 2 years ago but very clearly Putin wouldn’t haven’t honored it anyway. How do I know? Because we also signed the 94 agreement with them and Ukraine and Putin ignored that. And he just bombed a power plant despite recent ceasefire negotiations.
So, he ignored the 94 agreement; he’s not negotiating in good faith now, but your advice to the Ukrainians is let Putin keep the land and roll over?
Do you believe Putin would actually stop the invasion and go home?
Here's a proposal for you: if you'll watch this recent Jeffrey Sachs presentation to the EU parliament, which goes into these issues and their historical context in significant detail (90 minutes, but well worth the admission price), then I'll reciprocate by checking out a reference that you send to me.
https://youtu.be/u4c-YRPXDoM?si=i_HpD1XOw1xkCzJi
I’ll watch it but the question doesn’t change. You can answer now based only on what you know which is enough.
Why not just answer the question?
Please watch it, and I'll do the same for your source.
In the meantime let me ask you this: do you believe that Putin is the next Hitler (your WW2 reference)? He wants to conquer all of Europe? And your evidence for that is what exactly?
He wants to conquer Ukraine and EU states have said publicly their intelligence indicates Putin may not stop with Ukraine. Just ask Poland, UK and France.
You may not believe them and that’s fine but I have no reason to believe they are lying.
It’s a simple question, Jeff. You should be able to answer rather than invade.
You're being childish. I believe Putin is a thug. Who clearly wants a Russian sphere. I don't see evidence that he's seeking more (the UK and France? please. based on what?) or more importantly, that he has the means to reach for more. And for what it's worth, there's a mountain of evidence spanning decades that the US is categorically more violent and expansionist than any other current power. If the reverse were true of Russia, and it did in Mexico what the US has done and is doing in Ukraine, the US would annihilate Mexico, no questions asked.
Like I said- you may not believe them but I have no reason to believe they are lying. But I should take your word for it?
So you agree Putin has the intent and some means to continue expanding. How many nations should the world allow him to invade? And should they roll over?
As for US is worse than Russia? Really? How far back are we going? Settlement as a British colony? WW1?
Our history is far from perfect and we have done things no reasonable person would be proud of. But we’re not invading a neighbor in 2025 (although with Trump, who knows).
And you still didn’t answer the question which you can do regardless sod any sources we send each other.
Stop evading a simple question.
If you know Putin won’t stop the invasion, why should anyone tell Ukraine to stop fighting and simply become a Russian functionary?
I've tried engaging in good faith, and answering your questions. You can re-read my responses if you think I've avoided anything here. (Hint: I want the pointless killing to stop, as most Ukrainians now do as well.) Perhaps you'll dig more deeply on this issue, and I've pointed you toward at least one source that I've found illuminating. And once again, I'm happy to reciprocate if you send me a source of your own; otherwise I'll bid this discussion farewell.